Anyone who knows Jessica over at Shower of Roses knows that she is one of the sweetest people, always willing to help. She takes time to create relationships with with people who read her blog and she always finds a way to be charitable and assume the best even of those who aren't always as charitable towards her. She recently found herself in an awkward position. She discovered that she had been used by a particular person to promote their bookstore and their products under the false pretense of believing they were a traditional Catholic family trying their best to help promote the faith with beautiful products meant to increase devotion and strengthen faith. In the course of her business conversation with this person about reviewing more of their products, it was revealed to her that this family practices sedevacantism. For those of you not familiar with sedevacantism, they don't believe in the validity of our Pope, or any of the priests who have been ordained, or even the validity of the Extraordinary Form Tridentine Mass, much less the Novus Ordo Mass.
Jessica felt that because she had unknowingly promoted this family's business in the past, she owed it to her readers to share this information with them so that everyone would be free to make their own decisions about how much business they were comfortable with giving this online bookstore. And now, she's taking a little heat in the comments. So far, only one comment, but it's a pretty mean comment. Again, Jessica handles it with a lot more charity than I think I would be capable of.
Here is my concern (other than for my sweet friend)... do you think these people should be more honest and specific about their practices before they take the money of traditional Catholics who might not even know that such a group actually exists?
When you go to their website, their header reads "Creating a Rich Catholic Family Life Based on the Catholic Church's Liturgical Year". On their blog, they host a feature called "Keeping It Catholic Monday". There is even a section of the website dedicated to the importance of keeping Sunday holy and the importance of going to Mass. This by a family that belongs to a schismatic group that won't attend even a Tridentine Mass because they don't believe that any current priests and Bishops are validly ordained, that the Pope is not the true Pope, that the seat of Peter is vacant. Sedevacantists don't recognize the validity of even Vatican I, much less Vatican II.
I can't even wrap my brain around it, but these people exist. We believe they have cut themselves off from the one true Church, but at the same time, they believe we are the ones who are following heretics (that would be all of the popes since Pius XII).
Some people might make the argument that the books they are reprinting are perfectly fine, just old, OOP Catholic books. That they are just trying to sell good Catholic products to make a living and not influence anyone, which might be true. Jessica never says that people should boycott this store. But I can't help but think that if they didn't want to encourage people to their version of Catholicism, why not be honest about their position? Why not post it openly on their website, bookstore and blog? Why hide it? I don't understand the need to hide it unless it's because they know that most faithful Catholics wouldn't be comfortable purchasing their products. And that seems dishonest to me. If you have a different opinion, maybe you could share it and help me understand it. If you agree, it might be nice for Jessica to know that you appreciate her commitment to her readers and friends.
I think it's absolutely deceitful, and it saddens me that they used our friend in the process. You are right, though, she handled it with the same grace she always handles things.
ReplyDeleteAimee
My parents and sister belong to the SSPX (Society of St Pius X) in which, I guess they openly SAY they they love our pope, but they do not recognize anything after Vatican 2. Since my parents have joined, they have lost their charity, except within they little church, which has saddened me. They do not recognize our priests and Bishops as validly saying Mass, they won't go to my children's Baptisms or First Holy Communions because of it, (they'd have to set foot in a Roman Catholic Church) They will argue their stand without ceasing...the only point I've ever made my dad speechless on is that they "are not in UNION with the Holy Father".
ReplyDeleteOK, I went way off there, but wanted you to know, I get it. I think Jessica is doing the right thing. Supporting their business would only benefit a group against what we believe in, the Chair of Peter.
Yes, I do believe it is deceitful. It is not as if people who have separated themselves as such are not aware of the divide. It is an abuse of a friendship to have someone promote your business in such a way. They are not really Roman Catholics in spite of what they fancy and they know what we think about all of it. I have heard people defend supporting such businesses by comparing it to the fact that we all purchase from secular businesses. The difference, however, is that at least a secular business does not pretend to be Catholic when it is not. And we will not be duped into calling it such on our blogs.
ReplyDeleteI am a convert, who attends Novus Ordo Mass. I was not even aware that such a group as this existed. I myself ordered one of their planners because I thought it was an authentic Catholic calendar that would allow me and my family to grow deeper in out faith. After reading Jessica's post I contacted the company myself. I asked two simple questions- did they believe the current from of Mass valid (both the Novus Ordo Mass and Extraordinary Form Tridentine Mass) and did they believe that the current Pope was a valid Pope. They refused to answer either one of the questions and instead danced around it; which was answer enough for me. After several emails they were willing to refund my money and cancel my order. I am extremely grateful for that and I am now in search for a new planner. I am very grateful that Jessica shared the information that she had found out.
ReplyDeleteMichele Quigley's planners are wonderful! I have been using them for the last few years and love them. You can find them here http://michelequigley.com/
ReplyDeleteHTH!
Thank you so much for the link. I will check out her planner. I am seeing recommendations for her planners on several blogs I frequent.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYes, I second the support of Michele Quigley's planners!
DeleteI'm so proud of Jessica making it public. I have thought that this was their leanings, but I didn't have the full picture.
ReplyDeleteIt's such a shame that their operations are done in secret. To use the name Catholic is a fraud. To me it's similar to what liberals do, using similar words but meaning something completely different. It makes my blood boil.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI left a comment that didn't seem charitable after I published it. I am glad Jessica wrote what she did. She was following her conscience. Their practices seem misleading. Maybe that is not their intent. This kind of division makes me so sad. I considered myself "traditional" until I saw some of the ugly things being said after the conclave. Of course, "traditional" and sedevacantism are not the same. Thanks for speaking up on behalf of your friend.
ReplyDeleteOh, what a bummer. I haven't followed along with what happened but just reading what you wrote I would say that yes, it would be nice if they had a different name or at least made it clear that they weren't in union. But they believe sincerely that THEY are the true Catholic Church and that all of us have sort of stolen the label from them, correct? So, they probably believe that WE should be the ones with the disclaimer. But yeah, it would be a charitable thing for them to maybe make it clearer, especially if they are going to try to advertise with people who they must know disagree with them. What a yucky situation. May we all be united again soon.
ReplyDeleteThey aren't honest about it though even when directly asked. I contacted them after reading about the issue over at Shower of Roses; since I had ordered a planner. I asked if they believed the current Mass was a valid form or if the current Pope was a valid pope. Two simple questions and the person I was corresponding with would not answer them. I asked multiple times and they just kept dancing around them never giving me a straight answer. :( But all around its a stinky situation.
DeleteI think those kind of people think they and the group they belong to are the true church, so they wouldn't think of themselves as "not in union." In their minds it's all the other Catholics who are not in union with the True Church. There's some of this in the Eastern Churches between the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic churches (whom the Orthodox derisively call "uniates"). I've know about sedevacantists (BTW, I think Mel Gibson was a sedevacantist) for a long time because I grew up familiar with traditional movement and there are a lot of them among them - more so in the older generations, but they do pass it down. I know a family who is third generation traditionalists who will only go to the tridentine mass and who have sedevacatist leanings. It's a big, tight family so the ideas are held almost as a matter of loyalty. I hope I don't sound catty, but these ideas do seem to be stronger in those who are not well educated. It's not something you can really argue about; it's like trying to argue with a conspiracy theorist or space alien believer. I wouldn't necessarily rule out buying something from such a business but I would definitely let people know their beliefs before I recommended them. Just like I do with protestant groups like the Vision Forum, which I usual qualify with "they have some great wholesome products, but they are strong Calvinists so be careful of the works they publish."
DeleteI'm so grateful to Jessica for posting! We are traditional Catholics (thankfully, our parish offers the Tridentine Mass every Sunday and many holy days) and I had recommended the Holy Simplicity planner to our homeschooling group. I sent out a group email this morning to make sure everyone was aware of Jessica's discovery. I wish this family had been honest with everyone from the beginning. I pray they haven't led any unsuspecting souls astray. And I hope this doesn't lead anyone to believe that traditionalist equals sedevacantist.
ReplyDeleteThanks for letting us know Charlotte. Popped right over to Jessica's to show our support!
ReplyDeleteI must thank you for posting this as well...I too was not aware and find it to be very deceitful! I, as well as my whole family, support Jessica!
ReplyDeleteI'm nodding my head in agreement. The sedevacantists believe they are right. It's a sort of sickness and they are in need of our prayers. Don't ask me how I know.
ReplyDeleteI believe they need to feel the impact of their isolation. I mean, if they are going to cut themselves off, they should not pander to other Catholics, they should respectfully stay away and/or be totally upfront.
Every now and then SSPX students who live and attend school at least 40 minutes away come to our neighborhood with their fundraisers. Why? Well, where do they get support outside of their only family and parish? Who in our neighborhood would even know or suspect they are Catholics outside the Church? Of course they do not tell you they attend Masses offered by a group of ex-communicated priests.
I don't mean to sound uncharitable, but this hits home personally with me. Please pray for those who are misguided in this matter. It's a sort of mental and spiritual sickness.